Australian musician Nick Cave discussed his support for Israel and the Jewish people and explained why he has ignored calls to boycott the country in a Wednesday interview with Reason magazine.
According to Cave, he has an “abiding love” for Israel. He also explained his issue with evoking a cultural boycott, saying that he finds it difficult to think his music would be used to punish “ordinary people because of the acts of their government.”
“I understand that this is a controversial thing to say...I just don't agree with a cultural boycott in general,” Cave said.
Cave has received criticism from former member of the Pink Floyd band, Roger Waters, who has been vocal about his anti-Israel stance. In July, Waters defended the October 7 Hamas attack on Israel and denied that there was proof that Hamas terrorists raped any of its victims.
Waters has criticized Cave for choosing to perform his concerts in Israel in the past, and when asked about him, Cave said, “Roger Waters is deeply damaging to the sort of boycott movement. It’s embarrassing.”
When asked why he is so adamant about his stance against antisemitism, Cave explained how he was raised near a Jewish community in Australia and had many Jewish friends, including a Jewish girlfriend, when growing up.
“I just have a relationship with the Jewish people,” Cave said.
Cave also said that, from a biblical viewpoint, he has been fascinated by Israel and has always wanted to visit the country to see its religious sites.
“Regardless of all the horrific complications going on in Israel at the moment, deep down, I have a sort of abiding love for that place,” Cave emphasized.
The Australian musician, 66, released his latest album Wild God with the Bad Seeds today (Friday 30 August), on which he explores themes of doubt and faith.
In a new interview, Cave doubled down on his commitment to defending “free thought” and freedom of expression, while addressing the ongoing row over a cultural boycott of Israel amid its war on Gaza.
“I just feel – and I’m no friend of the government of Israel – but I just feel on some level that I find it difficult to come to terms with using my music in order to punish ordinary people because of the acts of their government. It sort of comes down to that, to some degree,” he told the Reason podcast in an episode released on 28 August.
“These are different people,” he continued, discussing some of the high-profile figures to support a cultural boycott. “Brian Eno is a different kettle of fish to Roger Waters, [who] I think is deeply damaging to the boycott movement. It’s embarrassing. Brian Eno is a different character, he’s a thoughtful individual.”
Waters, 80, has supported the boycott movement since around 2011. Five years earlier, he came under pressure from Palestinians to cancel a planned concert in Tel Aviv, stating at the time that he was “happy to play to anybody who believes in peace. I don’t discriminate between any of my fans, wherever they live. Being an Israeli does not disbar from being a human being.”
In 2018, Waters and Eno were among the high–profile figures calling for a boycott of the Eurovision Song Contest, which was hosted in Tel Aviv that year, as they reaffirmed their support for the Boycott, Divestments and Sanctions movement (BDS).
Cave then published an open letter to Eno, writing that he did not accept his decision to play in the country would suggest “any kind of tacit support for that government’s politics. Nor do I condone the atrocities that you have described; nor am I ignorant of them.”
In January, Waters claimed he was “fired” by his publishing company, BMG, over his inflammatory remarks about Israel last year.
Earlier on in the interview, Cave explained how he became interested in Israel as a teenager after growing up in Jewish areas in Melbourne: “My first girlfriend of three years was a Jewish girl. I just have a relationship with Jewish people, so it’s kind of a personal thing.”
He said he was “fascinated” by the Bible as a young man, and later endeavoured to travel to Israel to see “where all this stuff happened”.
“This is where I could stand on the sea of Galilee, and I could go to where Christ was supposedly crucified… this was extraordinarily excited for me,” he said, “and regardless of all the horrific complications that are going on in Israel at the moment, deep down I have an abiding love for that place [and] the history of the Jewish people.”
Cave then told his host, Nick Gillespie, that he had done “six radio interviews in a row, so if I’m sounding a little bit hysterical and sort of rambling, it might be [that]”.
“The thing is, we don’t really get much s*** about this sort of thing, these days,” he continued, addressing the boycott calls. “The BDS essentially works on the fact that, if you’re gonna play Israel, and they come down hard and you don’t, it’s a win. If you do play Israel, they basically leave you alone.”
Asked if there were any countries he wouldn’t play, he responded: “I’d have to think about that. Nothing’s sort of jumping out at me. I understand that this is a controversial thing to say, I just don’t agree with a cultural boycott, in general.
“Mostly because it doesn’t even work. Clearly it’s not working in Israel at the moment. In my view, it sort of emboldens the worst aspects of the current government; they exploit the isolationist, ‘The whole world is against us’ [attitude]. It’s used to further their nefarious agendas, and at the same time, punishing ordinary fans.”
Cave’s appearance on The Reason Interview comes in support of his album with the Bad Seeds, Wild God, which arrives today. Up next, the band will hit the road for a number of European tour dates this fall.
The heated exchange of words between Waters and Cave stems from 2017 when the latter performed in the Israeli capital, Tel Aviv, despite criticism from the Boycott, Divestments and Sanctions movement, which encouraged artists to boycott playing Israel due to the ongoing conflict with Palestine. Waters and Brian Eno were among the more notable names to also condemn Cave’s decision.
Since the ongoing crisis in the Middle East escalated to a new level last October, many artists have mobilized to use their platforms in a variety of ways, including participating in the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) movement and cultural boycotts of Israel. Some, though, have doubts about the effectiveness of such moves, like Nick Cave, who has pushed back against calls for such boycotts in a new interview.
Speaking with Nick Gillespie for an episode of The Reason Interview, Cave explained that while he considers himself “no friend of the government of Israel,” he finds it difficult to accept the idea of “using my music to punish ordinary people because of the acts of their government.”
A year after the controversial show in Israel, Cave defended the performance in his newsletter, the Red Hand Files. He stated his belief that “the cultural boycott of Israel is cowardly and shameful”. Now, six years later, the Australian musician has doubled down on his perspective despite the escalation in conflict between Israel and Palestine since the Hamas attacks on October 7th.
In a recent podcast interview with Reason, Cave re-affirmed his position on the subject of cultural boycotts, stating, “I just feel – and I’m no friend of the government of Israel – but I just feel on some level that I find it difficult to come to terms with using my music in order to punish ordinary people because of the acts of their government. It sort of comes down to that, to some degree.”
Cave then stated his view on cultural boycotts didn’t only apply to Israel, adding, “I understand that this is a controversial thing to say, I just don’t agree with a cultural boycott, in general.”
Waters has now hit back at Cave’s comments in a new video uploaded to social media. He began by referring to Cave as “the Aussie bloke” before saying, “Nick Cave. Nick fucking Cave”.
Waters continued: “The Palestinian mother/father carrying the bits of her or his dead child back along the bitter road to nowhere in a plastic bag pauses on the roadside to scratch a message in the rubble. Nick, here’s the message. Dear Nick Cave, we, the Indigenous people of Palestine, in this agony, implore you, please don’t cross the BDS picket line to sing for your supper in Israel.”
The bassist passionately added: “It’s not complicated, Nick. It’s not complicated. That act — singing for your supper in Israel, Nick — that act serves to whitewash the 75-year-old Zionist Israeli occupation, land theft, apartheid, and genocide of our people, Nick.”
The Pink Floyd founder then spoke about himself in third person and urged Cave to “follow the example” he has set along with Eno. He added: “Nick, pay attention. Nick, every precious drop of empathy, every loving hand reached out, every voice raised in harmony counts. Roger Waters and Brian Eno are our brothers. Now, Nick, I must find somewhere to bury these bits of my child.”
Waters continued by reading out ‘The Road To Damascus’, which he initially wrote after Cave called him “cowardly” at a press conference after performing in Tel Aviv in 2017. He signed off the message by saying, “Fuck you, Nick fucking Cave, you fucking prick.”
Earlier this week, Nick Cave guested on a podcast and said Roger Waters’ support of the BDS movement is “deeply embarrassing.” “I just don’t agree with a cultural boycott in general,” Cave explained, and now Waters has responded in a video on Instagram.
The Pink Floyd member explained that the Independent ran a piece about Cave’s statements and reached out to him for a comment. “Let’s see if they fucking publish it or not,” Waters said, and read his comment aloud:
Dear Independent, here is my response to the Aussie bloke. Nick Cave. Nick fucking Cave. The Palestinian mother/father carrying the bits of her or his dead child back along the bitter road to nowhere in a plastic bag pauses on the roadside to scratch a message in the rubble. Nick, here’s the message. Dear Nick Cave, we, the Indigenous people of Palestine, in this agony, implore you, please don’t cross the BDS picket line to sing for your supper in Israel. It’s not complicated, Nick. It’s not complicated. That act — singing for your supper in Israel, Nick — that act serves to whitewash the 75-year-old Zionist Israeli occupation, land theft, apartheid, and genocide of our people, Nick. Please, please, please follow the example of Roger Waters and Brian Eno and many, many thousands of others who are active in the BDS movement. Nick, pay attention. Nick, every precious drop of empathy, every loving hand reached out, every voice raised in harmony counts. Roger Waters and Brian Eno are our brothers. Now, Nick, I must find somewhere to bury these bits of my child.
Waters also explained that a few years ago Cave did a press conference after performing in Israel and called him and Brian Eno “cowardly.” In response, Waters wrote a piece called “The Road To Damascus,” and read that as well:
So me and this Aussie bloke are walking down the road on our way to a gig. Just as we get there, we see these heavily armed soldiers on the other side of the road knocking this Arab bloke to the ground, kneeling on him, kicking him in the head, and beating him with their rifle bats. I cross over to the other side, Nick, remonstrate with the soldiers. The soldiers tell me to fuck off or they’ll arrest me. “Are you alright?” I ask the bloke. Daft question. “Can I help?” “Yes,” he says. “You’re musicians?” “Yes,” I reply. “They’ve stolen our land,” he says. “We are resisting. There is a cultural boycott. Please don’t do a gig here.” As he’s dragged away towards the paddy wagon, he tosses a small round metal badge in my direction. I return to the other side of the road where the Aussie bloke has been watching events unfold. “Did you see that?” I say. “Yeah, come on, we got a gig to do, mate.” “No,” I say. “There is a cultural boycott. That Arab bloke is a victim. The Israeli soldiers are perpetrators. We have a moral duty to stand with the victim.” “Don’t you try to bully me, you shameful, cowardly bastard,” says the Aussie bloke. And he pushes past me into the gig. I reach down into the dust, retrieve the BDS badge, and pin it to my lapel. Fuck you, Nick fucking Cave, you fucking prick.
As reported by Stereogum, Cave’s remarks came during a guest appearance on the Reason podcast, hosted by Nick Gillespie. When asked about his differing views with musicians like Roger Waters, a staunch supporter of BDS, Cave didn’t hold back. He labeled Waters’ approach to the movement as “deeply embarrassing,” contrasting it with another BDS supporter, Brian Eno, whom Cave described as “a thoughtful individual.” He emphasizes that while he does not support the Israeli government, he is concerned about the implications of a cultural boycott on ordinary citizens and the potential for such actions to reinforce negative governmental policies.
Cave elaborated on his stance, explaining his broader opposition to cultural boycotts, saying, “I understand that this is a controversial thing to say. I just don’t agree with a cultural boycott in general. I mean, there are places where it’s worked, I think. Mostly because it doesn’t even work. Clearly, it’s not working in Israel at the moment. In my view, it emboldens the very worst aspects of the current government. They exploit—it’s an isolationist thing, like ‘The whole world is against us. No one will come and play.’ I think that it’s used to further their nefarious agendas, and at the same time punish ordinary fans. That’s just how I feel. It’s awful what’s going on over there. But I don’t feel comfortable with that.”
